You find two options: believing God is mean or believing God doesn’t exist and spirituality is an illusion. You guess in the end that God exists but you can’t be sure he’s mean because you can’t understand him. There is another option: there is no God but spirituality is not an illusion. It was the problem of suffering that led the Buddha to set out on his spiritual quest.
God is the silence that surrounds the music, the colors that delights the eyes, the moment RIGHT NOW that we all have in us, if we would get quiet and let it experience us .. How our mind perceives god is an illusion.God is that quiet, blissful state that exists in all of us. If (HE ??) is good or bad is the result of our thinking, and not being … How we respond to tragedies is the real question .. Mr Marre’s daughter had several different ways she could have dealt with the situation. I am guessing her “clear” mind provided her with the correct response ….
Geez Will- these posts are amazing! The reflections on human suffering are well said. As a social worker, there have been numerous times I’ve wondered how terrible things can be allowed to happen to good people…and wondered how God can stand by. But we are functioning with a pretty limited view on things. I’m personally passionate about this topic and thank you for posting about it. I was sorry to hear about what happened to your daughter, I’m glad she’s ok.
Another problem our “Western” culture has is that we do not have as complex an understanding of what we ourselves mean by the term “God.” The “West” is a culture with a tremendous Christian component, and this, IMO, is perhaps the root of the problem. According to the central claim of Christianity, Jesus was the “Christ” (the Annointed One, or in our English version of the Greek transliteration of Hebrew, “Messiah”), the incarnation of God.
Thing is, Christ preached love, and was love to people while he lived, according to the Gospel stories. So, if Christ was love, and Christ is God incarnate, then God is love. But there is so much suffering in life, how could this be? We insist on seeing the problem of “God” as the problem of (1) a loving, omniscient divinity that could not possibly countenance this world’s foolishness, and therefore must in reality be a cruel divinity; or (2) it is all just a fiction. By doing so we forget another possibility: “God” means “being.” Existence. The good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly. Everything. Notwithstanding the love of “Christ.”
What is everything? Mystery. The spiritual traditions of the world have tried to teach this, and we have not learned. It is in the book of Genesis and the book of Job of the Hebrew scriptures, and in the Baghavad-Gita of the Hindu scriptures. It was patent in ancient Greek religion, particularly with reference to the Dionysiac festivals (of which the theater dramas were an inspiration) and the Eleusinian Mysteries. Even the ancient Romans and Latins respected the mystery of the divine: the good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly. And everything in between. Again, everything.
Firstly - I am so glad that your daughter had the presence of mind to fight back and am equally happy that the attacker was caught. To comment here - none of us knows the bigger picture. Sometimes we are gifted with a slight glimpse - like the time I was fired from a job in the Wall Street area and a week later the first bombing of the WTC occurred and the PATH train I would have been on if I still had my job was damaged. I could have been severely injured if I still had my job. Or the time I stopped to water the plants just outside my apartment delaying my running of an errand for about 30 seconds or so only to get to an intersection and seeing the first car at the head of the intersection and thinking angrily, “Geez that could me up front first at the light instead of four cars back if I hadn’t stopped to water the plant!” (how eager we all are to complete our errands as soon as possible) and then watching in complete disbelief as the light changed and that first car pulled out only to be T-boned by a red light runner….wow - that FIRST car could have been ME if I hadn’t stopped to water that plant….! So - perhaps in the bigger picture this is a wake-up call to your daughter to pay closer attention to what is around her. For me - I always lock my car as soon as I get into it. And who knows - maybe if your daughter had stopped reading and pulled out into traffic SHE may have been T-boned by a red light runner….we just don’t know…it IS all a mystery. That is why it is called FAITH. 
Will,
Nice to know there are people in the world who take the time and make the effort to consider these questions in a thoughtful way as I try to do. More often than not, when I present this topic in the way you did to family and friends, it becomes a point of serious contention with all sorts of personal attacks. I’m eager to see what your next thought is on this topic, mostly because my faith is challenged in a very unique way by these questions and I appreciate the conversation.
I am a Christian which means I believe Jesus Christ is exactly who he said he is (God) and therefore He is our primary example on how to respond to these huge questions of life and situations that are repulsive and inexcusable. Which is where the huge responsibility of free will comes crashing in on our world. God in His infinite wisdom is committed to not force himself on anyone (oh how we wish He would!!). To respond to His love is a choice. Just as it is a choice to love anyone in our lives…. But, we can also choose to hate, or choose to make choices that lead to addiction and pain. I believe God allows both good and evil to exist in our world so that we can know both mentally and experientially the stark differences and realities between the two. Our life choices tell our story — for good or for evil. God created that deranged man in the parking lot for a much more meaningful existence than his current situation. His choices and the choices of those who came before him have dramatically skewed the results of his life. The best we all can do in response to the evil around us is to look at ourselves and ask the hard questions. Are our choices causing a legacy of love and peace or are we leaving a legacy of hate and pain? Have we become so complacent that the best we can do is point the blame finger at God and government or are we willing to stop making excuses and take a stand for love, service and profitable action in our own homes and communities? I feel like Will has been shouting this at the top of his lungs week-by-week. Our tomorrow can be full of love and integrity or full of hate and debauchery and the amazing thing is, it all depends on us… Jesus said (Matt 22:37-40) – Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and Love your neighbor as yourself.
Will,
I am glad that your daughter is ok. She is a brave woman. I’m relieved that the creep was caught. I have been in some scary situations like that in my life and though I am not religious I did pray for protection, and every time a small miracle happened (When I was living in Brazil, once I was surrounded by four punks on the beach in Rio de Janeiro. It was a cool cloudy day with no one in sight. I turned toward the boardwalk, and lo and behold there was a police officer looking right at us. Cops don’t usually walk the beach. They saw him and took off.)
I do believe that everything, no matter how bad or traumatic it seems, is among of the lessons we must learn in this lifetime. Karma, if you will.
Looking back on the things that have happened to me, I see a pattern and how it all fits in and makes me who I am today. I am grateful for all the lessons!
Let me begin by saying that GOD weeps for your daughter and her situation. May you be comforted to know that it was GOD that gave her the tenacity and courage to do what she did. His very love extended beyond the earlier warnings and was still there keep her save. A bit shaken and stirred but free from any major physical harm.
Your question is certainly one many struggle with and in hopes of bringing a bit more light to the subject let’s highlight that often this very struggle is usually the result of avoiding the topic due to personal changes that are required to get clear answers. Let me elaborate a bit.
Our very humanistic nature, with it’s tendencies towards ease and pride, is actually afraid to face reality.
If we believe that something will be painful we put it off or avoid it all together. We pursue pleasure over pain.
We will also choose a lesser pain over a greater pain until the pain to no longer face one choice outgrows that of the other. Such is the case in procrastination. Until the pain of not doing it, is surpassed by the pain of getting into trouble, we continue to procrastinate. Once we choose to do that which we have put off, we find the pain was only self inflicted.
So realizing this it’s easier to see why we don’t have answers to some difficult questions about GOD because the answers can only be found in making a conscious choice to want to follow GOD and not our own ways. In that choice the answers will come. However this change can be painful because each of us has established our current ways of life to produce a type of comfort that we are familiar with. One that is somewhat controllable. Until our current ways grow so painful we can no longer handle it we look for excuses, as in procrastination, to avoid or put off this confrontation so as to avoid perceived pain from previous negative attempts or false teachings about spirituality.
One such reasoning, or more truthfully said if we can all be honest “excuse”, as to why we put off following GOD is “If GOD is loving why do he have so much pain and suffering”
Well for starters much of the pain and suffering is self induced for a variety of reasons that one post could not address. Our Loving GOD actually provided a way to not experience pain and enjoy an incredible life and both protection and prosperity. However humanity has chosen, out of pride, to argue the point instead of using the same scientific approach that we used to advance Technologically to discover how to advance spiritually.
Thus we are still immature in our reasoning or darkened in our understanding, the same way some one from the 700 AD would be in understanding our universe the way we do today!
Thus the systems and forces that are in place socially, politically, and economically are ones established in a form of darkened understanding and they use tools they of mass influence and technology to propagate the deception and lies that keep us trapped.
As a result we have each chosen and failed to read the very book that has all the answers and implement it. Further still those who have read it are often scorned or ridiculed and scoffed at in hopes of discouraging them to abandon it or quiet them to prevent further advancing of the freeing truth contained within it’s pages because they fear the change required to change would be more painful that the change required to enjoy an even greater life. That my friend is ludicrous. If I have a real answer to solve your financial problems that has proven to work again and again, why in the world would you push me away? You would certainly know if they were going to come and take your home wound you not?
It is written in the holly scriptures that “people go through pain and suffering for a lack of knowledge” That suggests as in any relationship that there is a dialog going on between parent and child, mentor and protégé, or teacher and student. GOD has already given us HIS greatest gift and a manual to read to draw close to GOD.
If out of our own choices we decide not to read and learn and draw close who’s fault is that? Certainly not GOD’s would you agree?
For example. Let’s imagine you choose to get married to the most incredible person in the world who will never leave you no matter what you do or how bad you are. They are wealthy, influential, wise, powerful and can create the perfect life for you.
After the wedding and honeymoon you decide to get in your car, go back to your own home, and continue living life doing things your own way as you did before, never bothering to call your new loved one. Can you grow in intimacy? Can you hear how to work together to craft and even more beautiful life? Of course not. It does not matter what you are promised in this new relationship, you don’t access it because you didn’t stick around long enough to learn about it.
Now you find yourself in financial trouble. It does not matter that you have a new bank account with millions in it that could solve your financial woes if you are not aware it exists right? If your not aware you don’t even try to figure out how to access it wouldn’t you agree?
That’s what many of us choose to do to GOD. Here GOD has given everything for people to live happy, be protected, provide financially and yet people are not aware of it because they never read the manual or they choose to doubt it, ignore it, or argue over it and blame it on GOD when it was they who chose to not learn how to appropriate what they have been given.
In many cases so called “victims”, usually if they are deeply honest, have an intuition that something was not right before they started out on their decision. It could have been as subtle as a thought that was dismissed for some reason they had or just this uneasy feeling that they did not have language to explain that something was off. GOD was trying to warn them.
Many in the World Trade Center, which the media avoided, attested to the fact that they had thoughts of “Not going to work” which they later said “I brushed it off reasoning out of it by giving a reason like ‘Well I have to provide for my family” It sounds good but in this case they choose to override GOD’s gentle still small voice for their own reason. Here is another example from my own life. If a farmer, out of love, puts up a sign that says “Warning electric fence, Don’t Touch” and you choose to touch it who’s fault is that?
GOD is perfect love and perfect love will not over ride our own free will. Love does not exist where free will cannot choose to love the other one back. Thus in free will, we can choose to follow or not to. What is never told about in our media and churches are the tears GOD weeps when HIS children make the choices they make. One drop of HIS tears would cause you to weep uncontrollably for more than a week for the sorrow is so great.
Yes GOD LOVEs and gives you free choice. We now live in a world that is worse because generation upon generation is reaping the effects of ignoring these laws of love set up for us to enjoy life. And then they argue there is no GOD because they have chosen a path that actually perpetuates the blindness to GOD. Those that choose to follow will still enjoy those benefits. Those that choose not to will encounter harder and harder trials. You can only run through so many red lights at 100 MPH before you come to a full intersection and have yourself a head on collision.
What is sad is that those who were supposed to be our spiritual leaders were strategically eliminated or deceived so as to fail to heed the voice of GOD themselves. Out of that pride and selfish motives have built a New Church that failed to properly guide and share the true nature of GOD. Instead they have chosen a gospel that has been commercially produced to earn the most profits for them instead of in the lives of the listeners.
Anyone who has a right head on their shoulders, who will dig deep inside for the courage and willingly sort through the materials available today, who choose to overcome their own habits and tendencies, will come to discover a GOD who is eager to help and jump in. A GOD who is so incredible that they could not deny GOD any longer. They would then have their eyes opened wide to see GOD every where and understand with new insight. They too would want to shout from the roof tops the magnitude of HIS love, provision, and protection so as to help others avoid the pain and discover the beauty.
Anyone with a truly open and seeking heart will not be denied by a loving CREATOR the answers they seek. Just as you now are open and seek and ask by placing this post for us to respond to, have given GOD the open door to send HIS true saints and angels to answer your hearts cry.
However be careful as darkness lurks trying to continue to propagate the lie that GOD does not care or does not exist by using, people, unaware, who out of their own darkened understandings, for their own reasons, find themselves trapped in a way of thinking that keeps them from seeing the light! Some even show up as an angel of light only be be a messenger of darkness.
The holy scriptures tell us “If any of you lacks wisdom let them ask of GOD who gives liberally and without turning away and scolding.” because the truth set’s you free. Free from pain, free from fear, free from lack. It’s ignorance that causes problems. Ignorance is not bliss, ignorance is tragedy.
Call on the Name of Truth and You shall be saved is more beautiful now than ever.
Roger Gauthier, CEO Tri-Vision Global, Inc. http://www.trivisionglobal.com
First Will, let me add my thanks to the others that you daughter was not hurt and it was very sad to know that no one would come to her aid in her moment of need. I’m sorry for that. I’d like to think that I would but you never know, until you are tested, how you would react in a situation like this.
Once when my daughter was 13, a man tried to jump into her bedroom window while she was on the phone with one of her friends… for what we can only assume was some evil purpose. My partner went running after him armed with a cast iron fry pan and I was right behind him (literally) with a small wooden baseball bat. Luckily we did not come into contact with him. For I can only imagine several horrible scenerios to the outcome of that meeting. But needless to say my daughter was so tramatized by the incident that she sleep on my bedroom floor for over 5 months before she could again sleep in her bed as she was too afraid to be by herself. Even now that she is 22, she still does not like to be alone and usually has friends sleeping over and will not close her bedroom door at night.
Besides my life’s experiences, I know that my own Christian upbringing has definitely shaped how I view God, love, pain and suffering. I borrowed some thoughts and words from others, and have added some thoughts of my own to this. It is not my purpose to try to suggest that I know what is the truth for after this life …that is a mystery that we only get to know once we get there.
But what I can say is that once when I was in the emergency room (with a pulmonary embolism) , I was in incredible pain but had not yet received any pain medicine, I heard a voice as clear as any say “It is not your time.” It was a masculine voice so I know it was not my own thoughts coming thru. And I felt an incredible peace after that …whether from relief or a gift from above I am not sure. But I do believe that there is a purpose for suffering, even though I strive to avoid it altogether. After all Life is so much easier when all is easy! If we had it our way there would be no pain or heartache to deal with. There would be no worries because there would be no problems to overcome. But in doing so there is a strong attachment to this world. None of these things are terribly wrong to do or have in themselves, but they underscore a general mindset that affects how we view pain and suffering.
Our things and activities reflect the comfortable lives we have in this country. They also reflect how far we have gone to avoid pain and suffering. In the end – if we are successful our attitude becomes one of self-sufficiency – in need of nothing or anyone…including God. We become attached to the comforts of this life and have much difficulty coping with the realities of pain and suffering.
So, the natural question is: what is the purpose for pain or suffering in our lives? It causes us to look upward. When we are faced with pain and suffering we naturally look to a higher power for comfort. Note that the comfort God provides is quite different from the “comforts” of life. ‘He’ encourages us (gives us “courage”) to make it through trials. And our God is faithful in that he provides us comfort through all our trials.
It causes us to look inward. When we live in constant comfort it is quite difficult to see beyond ourselves. Through pain and suffering we see just how frail our lives and bodies are. We also realize just how selfish and self-centered we tend to be. When looking inward, we can give thanks to God for helping us see our weaknesses.
It causes us to look outward. We learn there are others facing their own pain and suffering. And we are then able to comfort others as we have been comforted
It tests and builds our character. It makes or keeps us humbled. It gives us the opportunity to trust in our Lord to care for us in our afflictions. It gives us the opportunity to look past ourselves and to others who may benefit from our consolation. It builds within us a great desire for eternal comfort and a desire to understand what is in store for us after this life is over.
I am very glad to hear that your daughter came out all right with this.
As for the story of the “brain dead” woman, it really makes no sense if you analyze it properly. The woman was obviously not clinically dead. Why would a surgeon kill her in order to operate on her? Obviously the procedure allowed for her to stay alive.
We do not understand all the workings of human consciousness but I don’t see how any of this points to a God.
I agree with the poster who spoke about the Buddha (just a man after all). I think a non-theist approach to spirituality makes a great deal more sense, now that we know so much more about the workings of the universe than we did when we made up God while cowering in our caves, don’t you think?
Well that’s my two cents anyway. Thanks for the interest post!
Dear Will,
Thank you for your post. I am so sorry for the horror that struck your beloved daughter, and I wish her a speedy recovery on all fronts. Your letter speaks to the one conundrum which no science has solved, namely the relationship of human beings to that great “Other” or God as you would say in your religious tradition. I am Buddhist and as such I acknowledge and honor with my life what we call “the Law”, the visible, measurable, observable, and replicable realities of cause and effect even as, paradoxically, we recognize a vast, indefinable unknown. The specific teachings of my beliefs do not focus on a deity so much as they target these factors in all their infinite manifestations.
As a woman married to a Muslim, I have also studied that religion extensively and have edited one volume and am currently editing another which seeks to elucidate significant beliefs and aspects of Islam. In my reading, I’ve seen that one area in which Christians differ from Muslims lies in the formers’ tendency to anthropomorphize God, to turn the deity into a recognizable form and to apply to it a set of human characteristics and behaviors. Muslims do not. For them, God is beyond human description, without boundaries, parameters, beginnings, endings, or any of the limitations accrued by the myriad life forms and inert forms which were created. Any attempt to beard God, to grant God blue eyes, wide shoulders, a long white gown, is anathema for those who practice Islam. Their interpretation of “created them in his own image” is that Allah created man in the image of his own devising rather than his own likeness.
Islam states that there is a unbridgeable gap between The Creator and the created and that all of our human language is only appropriately used to describe the created. When language is used to discuss or describe The Creator, words fail, or they can only be pale interlopers in a realm for which there are no known lexicon. Muslims believe humans do not have the capacity in language or in mind to fully comprehend the Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent aspects of that which gave us life. Yet, language being all we have, Muslims follow a book (The Qur’an) of divine revelations which guide and motivate their lives. A poor example of this predicament is the ability of people to use a television without knowing anything about electronics. Here is where faith enters the picture.
Ironically, while Buddhism does not speak to a supreme diety in the manner of Judeo-Christian beliefs, it admits to the presence of rare examples of people for whom the grand riddles of the universe cause no anxiety nor unanswered questions, the enlightened Buddhas. Buddhism’s ancient texts also concede the presence of that which we, as mere humans, do not yet understand, the mystical and incomprehensible.
As a result of all these influences, I see what occurred to your daughter as an incident of tragic possibility that erupted in a world where such is not rare, where its opposite exists, and where each seeks dominance. When rain falls, it falls on the patio, which needs none, even as it falls on the garden, which does. Rain falls, draught thirsts. However they were granted, these and all elements of life are partnered in order to make present a full spectrum of possibility between opposites. Would we recognize goodness if there was no evil. Would we revere and appreciate the personal courage of Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Father Damien if there were no Hitler, Idi Amin, or Pol Pot?
When a similar incident befell my own darling daughter, I railed at the fates, I changed from pacifist to vengeful parent, and I ached for the scars I could not see on her heart and psyche. I also wanted justice, and after a year of being mostly ignored, a year of bureaucratic malaise, I saw no hope of achieving that gift for her. So, I chanted, spending innumerable minutes baring my heart and flickering trust to the universe, asking that somehow, someway, my daughter see that she wasn’t forgotten. When later, in full view of a stunned courtroom, the accused revealed himself completely as a soulless, malicious lout, I restrained my cheers and let tears of gratitude fall.
Years later, my daughter said, “Mom, I regret nothing that has happened in my life. I wouldn’t change anything, even that. Because of it, I have more understanding and compassion for people who have suffered, and maybe, just maybe, what I’ve learned about moving on, about conquering the echoes of that horror, can help them to do the same. It has helped to make me who I am.”
Whether tragedy is part of a plan or part of a pattern, the real “tell” is in how we deal with what life serves up. The Muslims, Buddhists, and Christians I know would all agree on that.
Why did this post end up being about god and not about how no one in the busy parking lot came to your daughters aid??? Luckily you have done your duty as a father and taught your daughter well!
I have enjoyed your teachings about the “New American Dream”. If i wanted a sermon i would go to church on sunday.
Lets keep church and state separate… we have seen time and time again how religion is used by world leaders to impose influence and power that they did not have or deserve.
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